Choosing Polyamory While Raising a Family

In season 6, episode 70 of the Project Relationship podcast we talk with Megan Bhatia from the Amory podcast about our different polyamory journeys, our experiences with family as polyamorous people, and parenting outside the monogamous paradigm. 

The following transcript was generated by AI, so enjoy the AI-flavored word choices, and unconventional spellings of Joli's and Megan's names

Joli Hamilton
Hi, Megan, thank you so much for joining us. I'm thrilled to have this conversation. And I know Ken was really excited about how excited I was to have this conversation. I'm really looking forward to it. Because there is something magic that happens when you meet some people, you and I met by total Kismat. We were featured in the same Vogue article about ethical non monogamy. And when we first talked, I'm like, we have to talk more. So

Megan Bhatia
really, I felt the same way. I felt like that one conversation went longer than we both expected. And I felt like we were just scratching the surface. So thank you so much. It's an honor to have a chance to talk with you again and to meet you again.

Ken Hamilton
Yes. And to meet you and featured in the same Vogue article.

Joli Hamilton
That's a great line. Yeah. So anybody who hasn't read it? I Megan, I think you and I are the people who got the most bear in that particular article that was angry. There were some there was some real rawness so I highly recommend taking a read because it's it's a complex topic, polyamory non monogamy it's and sometimes we only get the the most surface views the really pretty surface views. And I think the author did a great job. Michelle did a great job of just diving in.

Megan Bhatia
She really did. And I have to give my two partners such an amazing credit, Marty and Kyle because I feel like although the Michelle had interviewed me directly, they didn't get a chance to have their voices shared. And they have different perspectives as well. And I know that in if we'd look at the cultural norms for two men, to two straight heterosexual men to admit and share what they did through the article, which which is our meeting story. It's kind of how this all develops. So I can't be open and not share that story on how the first couple experiences were. They were three, three sons just to jump right in for your your career.

Joli Hamilton
With two straight heterosexual men like yeah, cisgender men like, here you go, this is the thing we hear can't happen exactly that it did.

Megan Bhatia
And I'm so proud of them. And they are just so secure, beautiful human beings. And yeah, it just, I feel like this is opening up on another world. I remember being on the receiving end of someone else sharing their story when I was reading it five years ago, and I couldn't have imagined it. So it was really nice for me to be the article like to be the story that was being shared was really surreal.

Joli Hamilton
So tell us because the audience isn't sitting in front of the article right now. Would you share with us just a little bit about how you found yourself in the wild world of non monogamy?

Megan Bhatia
Well, like I was saying, when I first was introduced to the idea, it was exciting and kind of scary. Marty started bringing up the idea of it and he kind of processed a lot of his own jealousy. He started asking me about past boyfriends. And to give a short synopsis we had kids at that point. They were they are twins. They are now six they were then two. And I Martine says to me now that he felt like I had lost something. My heart mind, you know, me probably due to sleep loss and much more. But I do think that there's a lot that we can lose in relationships without even realizing it. So we had gone down that path already 15 plus years together. And I think he was starting to look at what does it take to open up this woman's heart again? And what is that going to be like? So he brought up these ideas, and we started talking about it. It was an exciting time, it took us maybe a year of talking about what it would look and feel like, explore it, and we had some adventures. I'm gonna give the really quick synopsis. The adventures are fun. There's so many there's so many different things that happened. But fast forward, I now have another partner His name is Kyle. My husband Marty has another partner she is not open publicly. So we keep her identity private. And I totally respect that. I think each of us have to decide how open we want to be. So right now we're already in Costa Rica. I live primarily with my husband, Marty, although he and I alternate days with our other partners. So from one person, I mean, really, for people that are just new to this topic. I think it looks and sounds a little weird to me. It feels totally normal. Because this is just what works and it's meeting all my needs. And we're constantly pivoting and changing a little bit. But I think it's honestly so hard to remember even how I was relating to my relationship then because it's changed so much.

Joli Hamilton
That oh that is such a juicy way you have Ken has a great eats. He he really went through a lot when we introduced non monogamy into into our triad at the time, it was a lot about like, what is the relationship? Is it separate from us is the relationship itself? So I what I heard you just say reminds me so much of what you would say, Ken

Ken Hamilton
totally. It's think thinking back, it's it's hard to imagine, right? Like, put myself back into the mindset that accepting things as they were without. Well, just that accepted things were there as they were, I didn't look for anything else didn't look for what I needed or wanted and just let it be.

Megan Bhatia
Yeah, that, to your credit, I think the fact that you can't even remember what it was like you how much work you've done to shit. I mean, this is the internal work that we're doing shifting inside out. And like you said, asking yourself those questions of, I don't think I ever even asked myself either what I wanted in a relationship like what? So what is a relationship? Even those fundamental questions now that are my everyday world? How do I want to create this relationship? What needs are these meeting? You know, how have I changed? How have they changed? How do we need to pivot? Like, all of this wasn't even in my consciousness? And it sounds like maybe that's where you're at as well.

Ken Hamilton
Exactly. Yes.

Joli Hamilton
And when when I hear that question now, so when I hear somebody talk about relationships, now, I instantly feel lit up and excited. But I do remember. So for us, this goes back 13 years. So I remember being we were each married to other people. And the first first questions about what is the relationship Anyways, if you know if they're gonna, if we're going to do something different? What does that mean? I didn't feel excited, I felt terrified. I felt terrified right to the core of my being because I had a bunch of kids. And I just think it's worth noting, you've had children as well already, when you opened up, and a lot of times, that's the piece that blows people's mind. They're like, I could imagine it pre kids. Or I could imagine it posts kids, but posts, they grow up. In other words, not post them. But that stage of life when the kids are little, especially like my youngest was two and your your youngest biological children were three. People often feel like that's the shocking thing that you were even questioning that you were entertaining any questions of like, what is a relationship for? What do I need from it? I think that when we go into child rearing mode, it's easy to sit down everything else. So I resonate with what you're saying Marty was seeing. There's a, like a loss. There's a loss that comes and I was deep. I was 10 years into my motherhood for biological babies, when all of a sudden I woke up one day like, oh, no, oh, no relationship isn't this isn't what I need it to be. And I think a lot of people thought that the kids would be the anchor point, right? Like the the kids are the anchor, you don't change things because kids shouldn't experience change. But now 13 years later, I can't imagine not having shaken things up and be part of a bigger world.

Ken Hamilton
And I remember that feeling of being like, but But what about the kids stability, but I just now I just always think of Finding Nemo? Well, if nothing ever happens to him, nothing will ever happen to him. And I really get that now. That's it?

Megan Bhatia
Yeah, I have. There's so many different ways I'm going to take this first, I can totally relate to so many people, because there is this fear that comes up. Because everyone I think I've ever met someone that's like, I want to be a bad parent. You know, many people are like, parents, I want to provide a really safe loving home for my kids. The question is, are how? How do we do that? And I think when we don't use ourselves as like, the main teaching tool, not what we say, but what we do how we be. That, to me is where I always anchor myself if someone questions like, Well, how about your kids? You know, what did they think about you not being home every night or your husband not being home every night. And for me, I always come back to they are seeing a mommy that is happy and empowered and creating a life that she loves. And it looks like this. I hope that that's the implicit learning that they're gonna get because they're six now, you know, they just know what they know. It just this to them is normal. But my hope is that 1020 years they look back and go wow, thanks, Mom and Dad for really being adventurous in creating your own life and showing us that we could and that we that putting yourself first and really meeting your own needs creates a safe place for you know, for kids to be raised. So I think so many people have the good intentions of wanting to create a safe and stable household for the kids, but then do it in a way But self sacrificing but in an A martyr in a resentful way that just tears apart the relationship. Yeah, then that's what kids are exposed to. Because that was my upbringing up until my parents got divorced when I was 15. It was really I learned to resent I learned to don't speak your needs, I learned to like all the things I don't want to teach my kids. But not I don't blame my parents, you know, they did the best that they could they stayed together as long as they could for us. And so I just, we're just flipping that around a little bit.

Joli Hamilton
That's it the the idea that there is a single way to raise children? Well, I think most thoughtful people have have realized that there isn't just one way to raise kids. Still, this pushes the boundaries, this pushes the edges. And I remember so keenly having to really plant my stake in the ground and say, I want my children to experience me happy, like you're saying, but also to experience more, more parents more parenting, I thought that that was a plus. And I was struck by how many people really didn't feel that how many people were like, but there'll be step parents in your children's lives, and oh, my God, and the like, literal clutching of the pearls. And I didn't, I didn't experience that because my own parents had been so hostile and angry. As they were, they were in love, they never got divorced. They they happily went to each of their graves, in love, but you know, a very hostile way. So there are so many ways to do this that look like the right way staying together, not speaking your needs, shoving it all down to, there are so many ways to do that. This isn't really that radical, if you compare it to so many other ways that we don't quite nail really showing our kids how to how to be there for themselves. So

Megan Bhatia
the way I see it is I'm still learning how to relate. I think that these are fundamental skills that I didn't learn in school, I don't know if any school is teaching relating skills. And so for me, I feel like I'm deke. I've deconstructed my life, I'm still deconstructing it down to the level of how do I relate to myself? Because I feel like that's even more core. And if anything, my journey of polyamory and having two loving partners, just brought me to this fact that, wow, I don't even know if I have a loving, secure relationship with myself, holy cow, maybe I should look at that and work on that one, too. And not in that one or before the other, you know, it was just this beautiful realization. So that sent me down a whole beautiful rabbit hole into now just what I call the self love journey, and really understanding myself. And now I feel like I've gotten a lot more framework for what does it mean to relate? And how do we relate healthily. And so in my geek out way, I have to have a framework to understand it. So the framework that I've created is super simple. It's body, heart, mind and spirit. And to me, that just means what is the health in every sector? Am I physically healthy and mentally healthy, and my emotionally healthy and my spiritually healthy? And spiritual? That meaning for me more is, do I know and understand my purpose? And in a relationship, I think we have to be also spiritually healthy in that, like, what is our purpose of the relationship? And that can change we can reinvent that constantly. For individual for me, that that shows up as what's my purpose? How do I feel like I'm giving meaning to my life? How am I playing a small piece of this human human puzzle? But these feel now so core and so Elementary, like, Oh, of course, I these are all areas that we have to pay attention to every day physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. And then same thing in our relationships? Are we emotionally connecting? Are we emotionally current? Are we mentally connecting where our beliefs and sometimes I have to check myself if I'm having a bad day and mentally stuck, I might project a future that is really dismal. And to me, that doesn't mean that that future is going to happen. That means that's a reflection back to wow, Megan, you're Where are your thoughts out right now? Yeah, take a minute. So you're not grounded. They're like, get grounded in your mental health, your thoughts? So again, it feels so simple to me. But I feel like this journey, polyamory has been the catalyst for my own personal growth in a way that no other formal education has. How about you? I'm so curious for you. 13 years down the road?

Joli Hamilton
Well, yes. It's a great thing. Yes. Yeah. I I think that without polyamory, the two of us we were each honor. We were on a path of self growth, but it wasn't leading us either. Yeah, I think that we were but it was, it was. It was quite, it was like a tight spiral was really, really tight. I think of the I always think of opening as like this this beautiful spiral journey. that we're on right. And both of us were walking around in almost concentric circles, but constantly seeking, but you're just like, okay, but I'm still I keep stumbling across the same thing and I don't feel like I've gotten anywhere, and opening up. And really reinventing relating meant that we were what we had to reinvent ourselves. And I became literally a different person I, no one who knew me before really understands, like, I really changed because I was raised in a really toxic and hostile household. So I was very, I was loud and verbally aggressive, and really hard. And that sort of went away over the years of coming to love myself.

Ken Hamilton
So many ways that this journey has has changed me. Well, I have relatives who just don't believe it. Yeah, they don't believe that this is who I am. Because I've learned, I mean, I've, in my relationship with myself, I've learned some patience and understanding. And I try to project that out as much as I can to the world in a way that I never did before. And there are people who just don't buy it. And well, you know, there's nothing I can do about that.

Megan Bhatia
No, it's sometimes easier for people to hold on to the version that they know of you because that feels safe. And I totally understand I scared people when I started changing like this, because their reality was shifting. I wasn't doing it on purpose. But by me, sharing my growth and my path, I was making them unstable for like, Wait, you're not the person I thought you were if you're not, and if that's where my safety is external. And it's external in a way that if I know who everyone is, and I keep track of all that nothing changes, then I'm safe. And I mean, my parents come around, but I've definitely feel like I gave my parents heart attack. When I shared that I, Marty and I were opening a relationship. And yeah, I mean, a lot has changed. And I would love to say I've taken everybody with me on the journey. I want that to happen. But I also know that it's people choose people choose, right if they want to step into that journey. But Julie, that that image that you said about people walking around in concentric circles seeking, right, everybody's seeking and intending and wanting growth and longing for it. But you're right stumbling across the same obstacles, and then there's something literal about opening up that spiral that you then can grow. And that's I'm gonna hold on to that one thing.

Joli Hamilton
So yeah, and how I how I draw that image out is, and then you come across those same obstacles, you're gonna spiral around, that same obstacle will be there, but you will feel and this is how you know that you're growing, you feel how you're meeting it from a different place. So same obstacle, new place, same obstacle, new place, and now 13 years into this way of relating and growing. There are certain things that now when they come up, I actually celebrate them. They're exciting. Like, for me, jealousy is one of those things, jealousy comes up. And I'm like, Oh, wait, I'm in a new spot. And I mean, that's my life's work. So of course, that one catches my attention. But I think most of us aren't trained to be looking for our growth moments as joyful, because they're painful a lot of times, and this one, this leaves us in a spot where growth moments are. They're often both pleasurable and uncomfortable. I think that's really helpful.

Megan Bhatia
Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful again,

Ken Hamilton
well, I was just so we have all these, these changes that we experience as we as we grow and as our and I mean, for me, as my relationship to myself has changed. At first without me even noticing it and then starting to add some intentionality to it. Where do you see people getting stuck in there? So there I am, I'm working on my relationship with myself. Where do you see sticking points there?

Megan Bhatia
For people on their own growth? Yeah. I think it's a very human thing to be afraid to feel scared. I think Julie, whatever you just said how you said, it reminded me of that. It's how we're relating to what's going on. And I don't think we have a lot of the framework to understand and to create the relationship again, in my world, everything is relationships, the idea of the future and the past. They're just relationships, their relationship to the past relationship to the future. We're in a relationship with whomever we're speaking, whatever we're doing. But I think it's the it's understanding the fundamentals of relationships that we're missing, ironically, in order to have good relationships with ourselves and others. So for me, I think it's a simple mindset switch of, can I embrace this with curiosity, like what you were just showing us by example, is getting curious and getting excited when you hit that that trigger points again, sometimes for me, those still those moments still show up as triggers. And instead of relating to them like, Oh my God, I need to shut this down and I'm not capable of being with this feeling that's in my body. That's how I related to those points before. Right? It was like trigger didn't even know that word. It was like, this feels awful. Shut it down. blame somebody get this feeling out of my body. Yeah, now I've shifted that whole orientation, that whole relationship is like, whoa, triggered Whoa, I don't feel this very often. What in the world is going on? I'm gonna get curious. Okay, how does this feel in my body? Hmm, okay, my stomach's tight. What does that mean? How am I translating that sensation? Can I sit with this? I mean, I find that the number one thing is most people cannot physically sit with the sensations in their body. And again, I don't blame them. We're taught, I'm teaching at my kids school now. And even six year olds, when I bring up the emotion conversation. They're like, these are the good emotions. And these are the bad emotions. already. It's sick, right? This is good. This is bad. So of course, we're going to orient ourselves, you know, to pleasure, not pain, we're going to say the pain is bad shut that off. But like the work that you've done on jealousy, and that I I've kind of stumbled into it as well, is that jealousy feeling? I've just been missing the tools to translate those feelings to understand what is it that's happening in my body? And what am I really afraid of? And is that really real? Do I have maybe a belief that I'm ready to shift? Or perhaps this is like an old emotional wounds that I've been holding on to and it's time to clear that out and heal? So this was a long winded answer to your question of where do people get stuck, I am so compassionate, because I think it's a lack of our education is lack of examples, and understanding mental framework, emotional support, somatic body work to even understand ourselves in this human world. I think we got a little work to do. But I'm excited to do it. And I think I see on the same path.

Joli Hamilton
Yeah. I love this. But the thing that captured my like, my, my whole heart just leapt forward, when you said, I get triggered. And I hear so many therapists and coaches and counselors talk about getting curious when you're triggered, but I want to draw another round of attention to it. Because in my work, I so frequently see people get triggered, and they'll report it as if it's happening to them. They in that I think shuts down the impetus to curiosity. And so I'm hearing you say you're able to be patient with yourself long enough to allow your prefrontal cortex to come back on you can you can soothe yourself a little bit. And I'm guessing you do some things to also actually allow yourself to drop into your body. And I just want to say to people, if they're listening, if you can't comfortably drop into your body right now, then that's a process like widening the window of tolerance for that it's not all or nothing, you don't have to get to a spot where you can sit with every feeling for the whole time you have it. Sometimes this is about can I drop into that feeling for 10 seconds, Can I Can I drop in and just feel it for a little while. And remember that the feeling the sensation in my body and the emotions that are coming with it. They're no one's fault. They're just they're happening. And it's and just just allow that for a moment. And I feel like there's a I wish somebody could go back. I wish I could go back to a younger version of me and say, yeah, it's okay, if it's hard for you to even tolerate 10 seconds, because 10 seconds can turn into 10 minutes over the course of time. It's, yeah,

Megan Bhatia
I love that compassion towards yourself. And for others, I feel like if we can feel that for ourselves, and especially past versions of ourselves, we can bring that to our partners, we can bring it to other people that we're interacting with, and not to blame. You know, I think that that's actually that's what you were pointing to is we might get triggered not to blame someone. And also not to blame someone that's experiencing this but doesn't necessarily have tools to go through and say like, because it feels so scary. You know, when you get your body it's, it's like oh my god run like run for like, I'm gonna

Joli Hamilton
saber toothed Tiger time. And that's totally reasonable. I remember though, the first time this happened to me, and someone did tell me what if you just sat with the emotion and no one had ever told me that it was actually you? I was so the very first thing that happened to me in I'd been a pretty angry and loud person in my life. And he's known me my whole life. So I'm sure you've seen early Julie. Um, but the first thing that happened when we opened up was I went through a divorce my my prime Every partner at the time was like, Oh, hell no, I'm on here. It was really painful. It was very intense. And it was really fast was 45 days from the day I said, Hey, I don't know what I'm going to do. But this I have feelings to our separation 45 days. And in that time, there was a day sitting in our backyard in your backyard at the time. And you just said, what if you just sit and feel it? And I can't I was 32 years old, and no one had ever said that to me before. I had sat in circles, where we talked about all together having feelings, like I sat in women's circles, and we talked about holding feelings. But nobody had invited me to sit with my own. And it was a ground shaking moment that needed, you know, a decade of practice to become tolerable. Really? Yeah. What about you what started you though? Because there's a there's a catalyst moment. I think, for most people, what started you know, I mean, it's not just opening up, usually something else has to happen. What broke you open?

Megan Bhatia
What so for me, there was a moment when, if I'm talking just with my own ability to understand myself, that beginning of my own self love Journey, I remember being so frustrated, we were living in New Zealand on a farm, it was very chaotic. It was a beautiful experience. And at the same time, I had no time for myself. And I remember yelling to Marty out of the car window. I don't know when I'm angry by missing something. I'm just, I'm missing something. And I was so angry and frustrated. And I went, drove to a park. He was like, go chill out in nature for a little bit. I sat down in a park, and I just cried by a tree, I just cried and cried and cried and let myself cry. And I finally realized when I stood up, that I was missing me. Like, that's it, like I was missing me. And when I got that I could be there for me, then that really shifted. And then I started realizing that I couldn't be with those feelings. We had already even been practicing polyamory for two or three years at that point. But I don't think I had really gotten the gift that is polyamory, which is emotional exposure therapy, we'll call it Yeah. You open up and then you're with all the feelings,

Joli Hamilton
and I know that people's and yours and then other people's and then you're

Megan Bhatia
learning boundaries. And I just I really do believe that all of this is a learning path. You know, there's a reason that we can sit here and only have talked once, you know, for one hour, maybe or not ever before. And we we can pick up like we've been old friends on a journey, right? Because there's so much of this path that is the learning, if you choose it, if you choose it. And I see a lot of people going into those hard moments. And granted, I know it's hard, but without the framework, or without empowering yourself to choose it. And to say I can go through this, I'm capable of it. I will learn, I will reach out I will find community. A lot of people can just hit that first or the first couple roadblocks and go No way. Like just no way. This is miserable. I feel horrible. I don't want to do it. But I get sad because I feel like there. That's the moment you know, that's the opportunity is in those hard moments to say, Wait, there's there's something here on the other side. And maybe intuitively you kind of knew, for me it was that like, Oh, I'm missing myself. And it was a whole bunch of resources. I remember picking up a copy of Jessica friends Paulie secure, and reading the last part about how do I have a secure relationship with myself. So there have been resources along the way I think I needed. I'm very much a self learner, I will go down this path. I mean, I was studying abroad, in when I was 17. So I'm like, I'm an adventurer, I'm an explorer. I know myself to be like that. And as much as I want to say learned about myself, I'm so glad that people have walked this path before me. For YouTube, for your wisdom for the people that have written books and recorded podcasts that I got to listen to, as I was learning and going, Oh, I'm not crazy. This is actually like a thing. And they gave language to my experiences. They made me feel not alone. I think we need all of this as we go on this crazy journey, because it's already so separate. But the more of us that can come together and share our learnings and actually outline a path it's not a map per se, but it's more like a mental framework because the only way I can relate it is like if I can mentally understand that what I'm going through is not abnormal. And I'm okay. That helps me ground into my emotional body when it's not so secure.

Joli Hamilton
I love that yeah, I you know, what you're reminding me of Megan is that in fact, every human needs they need models to make sense of of their life, right. Most of us use most of our orals, unconsciously that's normal. And then when you do something that diverges from the mainstream, so if you're in if the mainstream culture and and if monogamy if it holds you and it feels good, great, like, that's great. And all of the skills that we're all talking about here, they all work inside the monogamous container. And the reason I mentioned that is most of us that I know most of the people I've met Ever notice how good all their other relationships get when they go on this divergent path. Because the Divergent Paths just make makes it really clear to you that you need to see and know those models, you need to understand what frameworks are using need to understand for instance, like what a boundary is for real, where you might be able to, you might be able to get by on implicit rules. In a simpler system, the system gets more complex, you need a map of the territory. And I'm super grateful that we we did we lacked models, oh, God, we lacked models. 2009 was still a little early. But what we did have was a couple of books that gave us some language, and even just language changes things. So that's where I feel like all of us are contributing to something that can only benefit our children's generation, and, and, and onward, because every time we define the language, and we help each other understand what it could mean, not just what does mean, written down once. But all the things that could mean for instance, the word conversion, like how do you use it? How do I use it? How does it feel for you? How do you feel it? When we take a word like that and let it enter the general lexicon? Now, everybody's relationship game deepens and that you said it, you know, nobody's teaching relationship, relationships, really, in, you know, in schools and educational settings. And that's been my experience, including right up through three. Now I'm on my fourth psychology degree right now, I'm going to finish up in just a little bit. And most of them don't talk about relationships, not really. So really,

Megan Bhatia
this is an inside out world. This is a crazy upside down backwards world. And the more I go down this path, the more compassion I have for myself for having gotten through or live the life that I have so far going, man, like, we're those skills. Nobody was talking to me about this. And I'm so so first congratulate congratulations for all of the additional education that you've done for me, I'm I'm doing the opposite. I'm like teaching now I'm teaching the younger kids. Yeah, I wish I would have learned and it's a simpler version. So I have created for adults, a self love journey that I walk through mind, body, heart, and spirit. And for the kids, I'm taking all that and I'm adapting it so that we we do the class called the inside out at school, because most of the time information comes from outside in, outside in outside and and that's kind of our traditional educational model. And for me, I want them to know that their inside world is just as valid. And so this is inside out class, what's happening, what's happening inside, what are those things that we call emotions? When does that come up? Even starting to give them different language instead of saying that this is a good emotion or bad emotion. This is I use now the language this is something that I like to feel or this is something that's hard for me to feel. And then we talk about strategies when something's hard to feel, how do you move through that? What do you do? And I asked the kids themselves, like everybody could say something different? How do you do it? So I want to start giving validation to them and their own natural learning for themselves? How do they treat their human body? How when they get triggered? What works for them? What are the tools, and then they can share with each other and different things that they do? And I gamify a lot of stuff, because some teaching from six years old all the way up to 16. So they mean different things. Yeah. But that to me has been such a, that's my continued education to take some of the love that I have. And I'm like, How do I? How do I help them embody it? How do I help them? And it's you know, what, every time you teach something, you learn it? And that's really when you look,

Joli Hamilton
that's it that 100% That's when you learn. That's why I keep teaching. That's exactly

Ken Hamilton
why I have a question about that. I know you're in Costa Rica, and we're in the United States, and the culture is going to be different. But still, how did you find people who wanted to put their kids in a class like that?

Megan Bhatia
No, I love it. That's why I'm here in Costa Rica, because there's quite a community of people that are seeking a different life. There are people from all around the world that have left their country and there are some Costa Ricans in the school as well. So it's a good mix of people saying you know what, that traditional educational model we just don't think it's working. So I didn't have to do anything special. Really. It was the it's a small are about 60 students a really big age range. That's why I chose the school because they focus on a lot of different things, not just academics. And and so I really, I had kind of pre qualified the school for my values. So I knew our values really aligned. And then when the person that runs the school, she found out that I did the self love program, she started listening to the podcast. And then she was like, Hey, would you want to come and teach this some of this stuff to the kids? And and then I just said, yes. So I mean, honestly, I didn't have to do anything. It was just other people with really aligned values. And that's why I think we need to keep seeking, if we're not happy, there's two ways that we can shift our life, right? We can, we can reframe it, we can try to reframe what our current scenario is, or we can go out there and change it, like moving and I am I'm, I'm a firm believer in using both. I think we just use the reframing all the time, but that don't change anything in our lives, that's not going to be helpful. And if we constantly are changing things, but not necessarily reframing how we look and feel about it, that doesn't help. So I'm like, well, which tool do I want to use, and we just kind of, we knew that the states was in the right context for us to raise our kids. So Costa Rica, for the time being, and I love it.

Joli Hamilton
I totally get that. I mean, we chose to homeschool our kids for pretty much the same reason it was a lot of people thought it was a religious reason. And I'm like no actually couldn't be further from the truth. It's because I want them exposed to a lot of viewpoints. And it was hard to do in the setting we're in it really is I give you all the credit in the world for picking up and, and just going to a place that could align. When I what I think though, is there's something really there's some there's a take home piece here for everybody listening, because what you're talking about this idea of, of making relationships, a core piece of how we educate children, I don't care whether you're living in Costa Rica or New England, whether you're sending them to Catholic school, or the most alternative, anything. i Every parent I've ever met wants their kids to have that. So what's something that you would tell parents to do? What's the takeaway that they could have to just start?

Megan Bhatia
So for me, it's a question. I feel like I don't have a lot of answers, but I have a whole lot of questions. Be the question that keeps coming up, even as I'm in my day to day life. And at the school, I keep asking myself, what's the difference between exposure and education? What's the difference between exposure and education? If I expose my kids to something versus formal education, and I'm not quite sure there's a huge difference? Really. So I think we need just a bigger frame of what what does it mean to educate and for parents to actually realize that they're constantly educating their children by who they be, you know, in their day to day lives. So and that, to me is probably the biggest mindset to have is, you know, our formal and formal education starts maybe five, six years old, maybe a little earlier preschool. But really, there's so much learning that has taken place through exposure, that I don't think, you know, we're in this society that's like, this bucket over here is education, and this is family life. And to me, those are anything but separate, they are inextricably linked. So much so that I am really just starting to, for me, myself, I'm like, What do I want to expose myself to? If I am still learning? And we all are, right? What do I want to expose myself to? And how conscious Am I being about what I'm exposing myself to? So what news do I take in what conversations Am I participating in or overhearing every day because that's me being educated in this world now as an adult, so I think I've just gotten way more conscious of it. And I try to take that same filter to my kids, and to say, like, what have they been exposed to? And, you know, how can I in the education piece that I've use? How can I formally ask them questions about what they're experiencing so that they can start processing for themselves what it is that they're actually learning, and to give them that tool to process like, that's the learning part. That's that's the education part for me is more formal.

Joli Hamilton
I agree. The education piece is how do I teach them to go do this for themselves? How do I teach them to go seek learning and in the way that will be the right fit for them?

Megan Bhatia
Yeah, and I think they do that naturally. And I think if we do that, for relationships to we kind of like took up the mold of what monogamy is or what relating is in general, if we just took that mold off and said, hey, people, you know what, what works for you? Well, like that, that's, that's how you relate, it doesn't have to be one way or the other, you get to create it however you want to create it for you. And guess what that can change in this time period. And then now you don't have kids at home and you want to relate differently then relate differently. And so I think it's this model of going from giving our power away to institutions, like our educational systems, or healthcare systems, I mean, so much religion, you know, that's like, the main one where it's like, I'm gonna give my power away. But for us to start reclaiming our own power in our day to day lives of in all of those areas, right. And that's where, for me I keep seeing polyamory or practicing relationships, in different styles is only one part of re empowering ourselves in the worlds that I imagine. And the world I imagine, we can not only create our own relationships, but we're creating our own governance structures, we're creating our own healthcare models, you know, we're we're creating much more instead of giving our power away to say, well, this is how it's always been. So that's how it's got to be.

Joli Hamilton
Right. So people who are interested in creation, in creativity in a really, you know, really holistic sense. I mean, I think most people are, but maybe haven't given themselves permission. And maybe a way to think of this in a, in a doable, you know, like tangible small bite might be. Pick an area where you where you do feel like you can reclaim some of the power. Literally, empower yourself only you can empower you empower yourself to expose yourself to something new. And that's actually what I find most people reflect back to me about this podcast in particular, and I know you have one, that might be another great lesson for our listeners. It's that they may not be polyamorous or wanting polyamory even. But they do want conscious relating. They do want to question the status quo. And so in its way, just listening to podcasts, just exposure to write what there is. So I just want anybody who's feeling overwhelmed by all the possibilities, you might be doing it right now. Right now.

Megan Bhatia
That's a really good way to bring back from my where I can go as all these heady, like, Oh, this is what's possible people come on, let's play to Oh, yeah, hold on a vegan grounded reality. Where are people right now?

Joli Hamilton
It's totally it's this is spot on, though. You're in Costa Rica. I'm in New England. It's like, I can't imagine that some more. Right? Like genitive representative, and all these different ways to travel in the spiral all the time, all the time. Megan, would you tell everyone where they can listen to you and where they can find you? Because I'm sure that people are going to want to hear more from you.

Megan Bhatia
Oh, thank you. And I love this conversation. I feel like it's already just too short. But I

Joli Hamilton
agree. Exactly. We're definitely gonna have to have you got

Megan Bhatia
to be continued. But yes, thank you for the opportunity here. I do have my own podcast, I'm about two plus years into it. It's called the Amory A M. O ry Emery podcast. I also have some online courses that I've put together really just as a documentation of my own learning journey that I'm so happy to share. I know we overlap in the fields of being curious by by jealousy. So I've got my own transforming jealousy. What I one that I really love is the self love journey. And, and that, to me is like a baby, that I burst into the world. And now I'm just starting to work with I worked with individuals. But now I'm going to start my first group program with people that are opening up and want some more support than that. So that's where I'm at right now. They can find me at Emory podcast.com, or at Emory podcasts on Instagram.

Joli Hamilton
Wonderful this is it's so helpful to me. I know. Sometimes Ken and I talk about feeling a little insular. It's funny how open relating can can wind up feeling like because you don't fit into the mainstream around you, it can wind up feeling oddly insular. And it's really a delight to talk to somebody who is out there journeying and figuring it out. And I'm so grateful for the work that you've created. I really am so glad that there are more resources in the world for people. So I thoroughly encourage our listeners to head over and check it all out.

Megan Bhatia
So did I watched your TED talk the other day and like, yeah, jelly. Yes.

Joli Hamilton
That's it. That's it. More more information presented in more ways. So

Megan Bhatia
yes, yeah. Well, thank you so much. This was so incredible. And we'll say To be continued.

Joli Hamilton
Absolutely. Thank you, Matt again, bye. Thank you.